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Author Topic: another cult / Berean Bible Society
becauseHElives
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Carol, I am not saying anything about any external law of any type......

my only reference to law is the Law of Yahweh upon the heart....and I say without reservation if the Law of Yahweh be not on your heart, you are no part of the Body of Yahshua / The Church.....

Romans 2:13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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WildB
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In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Why does Paul say HIS GOSPEL? and not OUR GOSPEL?

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That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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You asked how Paul's message was different, and that's what I answered, although I'm not WildB. (Hope he doesn't mind).
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
You asked how Paul's message was different, and that's what I answered, although I'm not WildB. (Hope he doesn't mind).

Not at all. I thought it was clear to all?

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That is all.....

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becauseHElives
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WildB , I am trying to understand this new thing that Paul is teaching that is suppose to be different than what Jesus taught, can I use the whole book of 2 Timothy or are there certain verses I should leave out?

Does the Berean Bible Society except 2 Timothy as acceptable for the Gentile dispensation of Grace?

my question was specific to the use of 2 Timothy....being as the Berean Bible Society reject so much of the rest of scripture as for the Church dispensation we are now in.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
WildB , I am trying to understand this new thing that Paul is teaching that is suppose to be different than what Jesus taught, can I use the whole book of 2 Timothy or are there certain verses I should leave out?

Does the Berean Bible Society except 2 Timothy as acceptable for the Gentile dispensation of Grace?

my question was specific to the use of 2 Timothy....being as the Berean Bible Society reject so much of the rest of scripture as for the Church dispensation we are now in.

Make shur you study this part 023: But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

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That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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Responsibility and Discipline- or -2 TIMOTHY 2:15 IN CONTEXT

http://www.gracepoints.com/articles/gpresponsibility.php

"Used by permission of the Berean Bible Society."

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Responsibility and Discipline- or -2 TIMOTHY 2:15 IN CONTEXT

http://www.gracepoints.com/articles/gpresponsibility.php

"Used by permission of the Berean Bible Society."

Good read. ThanX BigC bb later time 2 hit the woods.

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That is all.....

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becauseHElives
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I could say the same to you WildB...about verse 23 but , no matter...

24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Does the Berean Bible Society except 2 Timothy as acceptable for the Gentile dispensation of Grace?


Guess who wrote 2 Timothy?

(Guess Who taught him what to write?)

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Betty Louise
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My goodness Carol, the next thing you will have us believing is that Paul wrote the letters to Timothy.
[Big Grin] [Wink] [Razz]

Have a blessed morning. This old lady is going back to bed. This is way to early for me to be up.
betty [hug]

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Carol Swenson
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LOL

Sleep well [zzzzzz]

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
I could say the same to you WildB...about verse 23 but , no matter...

24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Yet you post on any ways.

Riddle me this?

How does one judge another about instructing other's, with meeknees when grafted into the tree of opposition?

Definition of OPPOSE

1
: to place over against something so as to provide resistance, counterbalance, or contrast
2
: to place opposite or against something
3
: to offer resistance to
— op·pos·er noun
Examples of OPPOSE


The governor opposes the death penalty.
The change is opposed by many of the town's business leaders.
The group opposes the mayor and is trying to find a candidate to run against her.
You've opposed every suggestion I've made.
He met the man who will oppose him in the next election.
These two teams opposed each other in last year's playoffs.
We're hoping we can get more senators to oppose the legislation.

The Becausehelives oppose,s The Gospel of Grace because it takes the power away from the Curse of the LAW.

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That is all.....

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yahsway
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Paul says this rom 6:1

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not. How shall we who have died to sin live any longer in it?


14: For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under ghrace.

Everyone who does not know Jesus is under the Law.

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Carol Swenson
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WOW! Right on!
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yahsway
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So Carole, you agree that being "under the law" is everyone that does not know Christ?

And- that following the law after knowing Christ, having that law written on our hearts is okay?

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barrykind
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carol must have fell asleep...

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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barrykind
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THE SHAM
DOCTRINES
of
“HYPER or ULTRA
DISPENSATIONALISM”
some of the recognized false teachers are:

E.W. Bullinger
Cornelius Stam
Charles Welch
Otis Sellers
A.E. Knoch
J.C. O’Hair
Charles Baker


by W.B. Howard ...editor of despatch
Please contact us if you have any further queries about the above material. As noted already not everything can be covered in this one small exposé booklet. We have not really dealt with other teachers than Bullinger; the teachings of Stam are similar, as noted and are just as confusing.

We can offer you a bigger A3 chart of the following extract from Charles Larkin’s material.
(We have permission from his Estate to distribute his material.)
Endtime Ministries P. O. B. 1265, Burpengary. Q. 4505

despatch@mail.cth.com.au


THE SHAM DOCTRINES OF
HYPER-DISPENSATIONALISM.
By W.B. Howard.
The Endtime Church of Jesus Christ has been facing so many fake doctrines, silly fads and utter shams that the mind boggles at the extent of it all. We are certainly in the last of the Last Days with all the accompanying spiritual traps that Jesus Christ warned us of in God’s Word. The Antichrist system is being established before our startled eyes, and Satan himself is bringing in powerful LIES, both in the world at large and in the very churches that profess to serve Jesus Christ. “Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,” 11 Timothy 2:9. Be on your alert, Christian, this flood of lies and deceptions has not ceased yet, he that thinks he stands safe and sound in doctrine, be careful that he doesn’t fall into error through self confidence! Depend on Christ at all times, keep close to God in obedience, study His Word diligently.
“Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.”
1 Corinthians 10:12.
A destructive SHAM entered the scene many, many years ago; it is false doctrine that often appeals to Bible believers who are fundamental and sound. Good old fashioned believers are often those who fall prey to this sham. It seems to promise deeper and more scholarly understanding of the scriptures. The deception I refer to is HYPER-DISPENSATIONALISM. You may have encountered this false interpretation method, or it may well have attacked you already and you have succumbed, have fallen? If the latter is the case, please read on with much prayer for wisdom and truth, depending only on the Holy Spirit. Do not defend this ramshackle method of Bible study, do not become distressed because you have been deceived – come back to the Truth of God’s Word in humility, He will set you free:
“Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.” John 16:13.
That giant of the Christian Faith, Harry Ironside, once asked what a foremost Greek scholar in America thought of Hyper Dispensationalism. It was asked in reference to his evaluation of one of the CHIEF HERETICS who were spreading Hyper Dispen-sationalism, Dr. E.W. Bullinger, and in regard

to Bullinger’s “private translation” of the New Testament. Below is the conversation between the two men, Dr. A.T. Robertson and H.A. Ironside, Litt.D., as recorded in Ironside’s book, “Wrongly Dividing the Word of God”:
(IRONSIDE) I said, “Doctor, would you give me in a few words your estimate of this work, and give me the privilege of quoting you as occasion may arise?”
He (ROBERTSON) replied, “I can give it to you in two words, Piffle and Puffle, and you may tell any one that that is my estimate of this vaunted translation.”
We agree that Hyper-Dispensationalism is indeed Piffle and Puffle, as are the doctrinal efforts of Bullinger!
Hyper-Dispensationalism can look innocent enough at the start, but will result eventually in an almost complete departure from “the faith once delivered to the saints”. BEWARE. Despatch is totally against Hyper-Dispensationalism, it is a disaster. Sadly, there seems to be a growth in this deception happening in our midst in 2005, this is why we must warn our readers. We have encountered a number of groups in recent months.
WHAT ARE THE BASIC TENETS
OF HYPER-DISPENSATIONALISM?
These are some of the recognized false teachers
of Hyper or Ultra Dispensationalism:
• E.W. Bullinger
• Cornelius Stam
• Charles Welch
• Otis Sellers

A.E. Knoch
• J.C. O’Hair
• Charles Baker
• This system of study and application of God’s Word limits the Scriptures that apply to the Christian Church of the New Testament. Thus the proponents of Hyper-Dispensationalism, believe that only the writings of PAUL THE APOSTLE TO THE GENTILES are applicable to the Christian Church, and only these writings can be used for doctrine, exhortation, church discipline and practical living instruction et al. Hyper-Dispensationalism teaches that Paul’s revelation is entirely different to even the other Apostles’ teachings in


the New Testament. The belief is that all the books and teachings of Scripture other than Paul’s are to be rejected as pertaining to the Church’s doctrines and instruction in righteous living from God.
... 2 ...
• Hyper-Dispensationalism shows that the Four Gospel books are Jewish and have no teaching in them for the Christian Church. This is an awesome error, for it repudiates the very authority of the Gospels of Christ themselves!
• The Book of Acts is likewise rejected for the Church as being mostly Jewish.
• Hyper-Dispensationalism teaches that the gospel preached by Peter in the Book of Acts is another gospel entirely from the gospel preached by Paul. If this were the case then either Peter or Paul must have a curse upon them, one or the other should be excluded from Scripture, for the Bible states:
“As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:9. There is only ONE Gospel recognized by the Lord.
... 3 ...
• The writings of Paul are seen as mysteries given to Paul for the Church Age, but Baptism and the Lord’s Supper are seen as being given to Paul before the Church Age revelations were shown to him by God. So, Baptism and the Communion are rejected as being not for the Church. (HyperDis. believers differ here, some reject both Baptism and Communion, others one or the other). The Hyper-Dispensationalism belief is that Paul did not receive his especial revelations for the Church until he was imprisoned in Rome. So that the only portions of Scripture given to the blood-bought members of Christ’s Body are the prison epistles – all other writings of Paul’s, other than the prison epistles and the general epistles, are seen as being just instructions for the Jewish church of that period of history.
• How impossibly limiting this is!
... 4 ...
• HyperDis. brings a wholly unacceptable division between the ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ and the ministries of the Apostles. Then it goes further and makes untenable division between Paul’s teachings, Peter’s teachings and the teaching of all other Apostles. It projects invalid distinction that is destructive, thus bringing confusion and loss of priceless, precious Scriptures to the victims of the sham. It is a system that should be rejected utterly, lest great harm be done to individuals and fellowships.

• The errors of the core teacher of Hyper-Dispensationalism, E.W. Bullinger, are enormous; he was a man of division, inaccuracy and of arrogant pride. By their fruits we may know these teachers. Does Bullinger pour forth a fountain of purity? Hardly, brackish, dirty water cannot bring forth the pure, sweet water of God’s Word.
• Here is what Ironside had to say of Bullinger:
“Having had most intimate acquaintance with Bullingerism as taught by many for the last forty years, I have no hesitancy in saying that its fruits are evil. It has produced a tremendous crop of heresies throughout the length and breadth of this and other lands, it has divided Christians and wrecked churches and assemblies without number; it has lifted up its votaries in intellectual and spiritual pride to an appalling extent, so that they look with supreme contempt upon Christians who do not accept their peculiar views; and in most instances where it has been long tolerated, it has absolutely throttled Gospel effort at home and sown discord on missionary fields abroad. So true are these things of this system that I have no hesitancy in saying it is an absolutely Satanic perversion of the truth. Instead of rightly dividing the Word, I shall seek to show that these teachers wrongly divide the Word, and that their propaganda is anything but conducive to spirituality and enlightenment in divine things.”
The reader can write for more on this subject from Ironside,
ask for “Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth”,
by H.A. Ironside, Litt.D. Cost including postage, $10.
SHALL WE PROCEED?
What is needed is armour that protects from this deception; it is yet another deadly trap that threatens God’s people today. What is that armour? We need the pure Word of God and instruction in its Truth; truly the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but spiritual, to the pulling down of strongholds:
“Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with TRUTH,
and having on the breastplate of righteousness;” Ephesians 6:14.

Read more here:


www.despatch.cth.com.au/Books_D/hyperdispensationism.pdf

This is a perverted "false Gospel" it is ANOTHER GOSPEL.

It is not the Gospel of Yahushua, the Apostles, and not ther Gospel according to Paul!


BEWARE OF FALSE "GOSPELS"...

Oh the precious bbody of Christ, and my fellow laborers in the "TRUE" Gospel... There are certain men have crept in unawares and are delivering a FALSE GOSPEL>>>ANOTHER GOSPEL..

Whose mouths must be stopped!

Jude 1
1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

2Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

17But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

20But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.





4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


This is a verse that states that there are some, that has turned "grace" into a license to be "lascivious"


greek word: ἀσέλγεια
#766

1) unbridled lust, excess, licentiousness, lasciviousness, wantonness, outrageousness, shamelessness, insolence


Grace us wonderful and without it none of us could have ever been saved....

Ultra-dispensationalism as taught by Burlinger, Stam, J.C. O'Hair et; el;

is ANOTHER GOSPEL....As seen in not only the above pdf document; but in countless examples myself along with others has shown on this board..


WHAT ABOUT THE FOUR GOSPEL BOOKS,
THE BOOK OF ACTS,
& PETER & PAUL & THEIR GOSPELS?
One would think that this booklet would be entirely unnecessary, how could any Christians actually fall for Hyper Dispen-sationalism? - in these days, anything goes! There are groups and individuals out there who are deeply involved in Hyper-Dispensationalism.
• How did they get into such a piffle and puffle?
Maybe there is something in a lot of us that likes to have a special understanding of the “truth”, beyond those around us, that embraces novel and academic sounding “deeper” teaching, “secret men’s business”!
• What is the answer we can have to the rejection of the four Gospels and the Book of Acts; to the contentions that Peter and Paul taught different Gospels?
Sounds bizarre doesn’t it?
THE GOSPELS.
To imagine that the Gospels which tell the glorious story of Jesus Christ from His birth to His death and resurrection could have no teaching and relevance to the Church is unbelievable. They contain the beauty of
9the very words and actions of Jesus Christ as He ministered whilst here on earth, the parables, the prayers, the miracles of our Lord. To say they are entirely Jewish and not for the Church is outrageous.
The book of Hebrews shows us that the Gospel that was preached by the apostles was the very Gospel preached by Jesus Christ. Yes, Jesus Christ spoke to the Jewish nation in different ways than to the Church, because He was leading them into the New Covenant in His Blood, and had not yet been crucified, He had not yet risen from the dead. The book of Hebrews also opens up the New Covenant, but NOT exclusively for the Jewish nation as we see in Hebrews chapter one.
* Read this carefully and you will see the opening up of the glory of the Son of God as “the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person,” as God speaking to the whole world of His work of “purging our sins” in His Blood.
In Hebrews chapter two we see NO disparity between the Gospel preached by Christ and the Gospel preached by the apostles, as the Hyper-Dispensationalism teachers claim.
It is the SAME Gospel.


[hug]

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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Hyper or Ultra Dispensationalism is not Dispensationalism.


"the teachings of Stam are similar, as noted and are just as confusing"

If the teachings of Stam are confusing to you then you best pick up your snakes and drink your poison thats after your clovenized tongue speak's so others can understand in there own language.

But please sell all that you have and give me my share before you do this.

Please stop your sillyness.

It is clear to all your inability to rightfully divide the word.

Plow on Berry, plow on.

--------------------
That is all.....

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barrykind
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wildb states:

quote:
Hyper or Ultra Dispensationalism is not Dispensationalism.


"the teachings of Stam are similar, as noted and are just as confusing"

If the teachings of Stam are confusing to you then you best pick up your snakes and drink your poison thats after your clovenized tongue speak's so others can understand in there own language.

But please sell all that you have and give me my share before you do this.

Please stop your sillyness.

It is clear to all your inability to rightfully divide the word.

Plow on Berry, plow on.


Quit Stamming Bill''

C.R. Stam, J.C. O'Hair along with the above listed folks "preach" ANOTHER GOSPEL, plain and simple!

1 Corinthians...written by Paul!


36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

38But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

40Let all things be done decently and in order.




--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
wildb states:

quote:
Hyper or Ultra Dispensationalism is not Dispensationalism.


"the teachings of Stam are similar, as noted and are just as confusing"

If the teachings of Stam are confusing to you then you best pick up your snakes and drink your poison thats after your clovenized tongue speak's so others can understand in there own language.

But please sell all that you have and give me my share before you do this.

Please stop your sillyness.

It is clear to all your inability to rightfully divide the word.

Plow on Berry, plow on.


Quit Stamming Bill''

C.R. Stam, J.C. O'Hair along with the above listed folks "preach" ANOTHER GOSPEL, plain and simple!

1 Corinthians...written by Paul!


36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

38But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

40Let all things be done decently and in order.



It is clear to all how you divide the word.

Id rather be Stamming truth than Spamming lies.

1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Do I have to babe sit you again till BigC gets back?

I really need to get out and split some wood.

--------------------
That is all.....

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barrykind
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Bill in his post stated:

quote:
If the teachings of Stam are confusing to you then you best pick up your snakes and drink your poison thats after your clovenized tongue speak's so others can understand in there own language.


No Stams teachings are not at all confusing to me sir...There false teachings born of satan himself to take away of the TRUE GOSPEL!

Stams confusion on scripture is to his own undoing....Anyone who rejects the words of Yahushua as to the Jews only..is confused in his own right!

Dont follow those "ultra" lies as perpetrated of the enemy; there is only "ONE" TRUE GOSPEL and Paul did not contradict it, nor any of the Apostles.

I cannot believe the lies of "another Gospel" [that you believe] are so defended by anyone of True Faith!

The is no "ecumenical" endorsement of such false teachings just for the sake of peace!

No not at all!

Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Yahushua came with a sword of the spirit and dividing between the soul and spirit, joints and marrow!

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart!

[hug]

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
Bill in his post stated:

quote:
If the teachings of Stam are confusing to you then you best pick up your snakes and drink your poison thats after your clovenized tongue speak's so others can understand in there own language.


No Stams teachings are not at all confusing to me sir...There false teachings born of satan himself to take away of the TRUE GOSPEL!

Stams confusion on scripture is to his own undoing....Anyone who rejects the words of Yahushua as to the Jews only..is confused in his own right!

Dont follow those "ultra" lies as perpetrated of the enemy; there is only "ONE" TRUE GOSPEL and Paul did not contradict it, nor any of the Apostles.

I cannot believe the lies of "another Gospel" [that you believe] are so defended by anyone of True Faith!

The is no "ecumenical" endorsement of such false teachings just for the sake of peace!

No not at all!

Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Yahushua came with a sword of the spirit and dividing between the soul and spirit, joints and marrow!

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart!

[hug]

Then you best pick up your snakes and drink your poison thats after your clovenized tongue speak's so others can understand in there own language.

But please sell all that you have and give me my share before you do this.

Please stop your sillyness.

Do I have to babe sit you again till AunteC gets back?

I really need to get out and split some wood.

--------------------
That is all.....

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barrykind
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bill states: [i need a rubber stamp for that]


quote:
Then you best pick up your snakes and drink your poison thats after your clovenized tongue speak's so others can understand in there own language.

But please sell all that you have and give me my share before you do this.

Please stop your sillyness.

Do I have to babe sit you again till AunteC gets back?

I really need to get out and split some wood.


Your following the wrong spirit bill, pray that you can see with your eyes and hear with those ears sir.

Some of the things disscussed here are the most serious issues that can face us...and you act as tho its a sill game..

Be forwarned sir; these are most serious matters;

and why is many times your posts edited by Carol?

Can you communicate as so not to bring railing accusations?

we have proved beyond any reasonable doubt that C.R. Stam, J.C. O'Hair; and others [but these being the main false teachers of the Berean Bible Society teaching "ANOTHER GOSPEL", and leading some astray such as yourself.

The evidence is there and anyone, anyone [in the body of Messiah] {Christ} that has a "love" of the "truth" can see thru this veil of hypocracy!

Those leaders are now deceased and some carry on thier false torch! "another gospel"


www.despatch.cth.com.au/Books_D/hyperdispensationism.pdf


much more links to expose this false "another Gospel" if you want them

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
bill states: [i need a rubber stamp for that]


quote:
Then you best pick up your snakes and drink your poison thats after your clovenized tongue speak's so others can understand in there own language.

But please sell all that you have and give me my share before you do this.

Please stop your sillyness.

Do I have to babe sit you again till AunteC gets back?

I really need to get out and split some wood.


Your following the wrong spirit bill, pray that you can see with your eyes and hear with those ears sir.

Some of the things disscussed here are the most serious issues that can face us...and you act as tho its a sill game..

Be forwarned sir; these are most serious matters;

and why is many times your posts edited by Carol?

Can you communicate as so not to bring railing accusations?

we have proved beyond any reasonable doubt that C.R. Stam, J.C. O'Hair; and others [but these being the main false teachers of the Berean Bible Society teaching "ANOTHER GOSPEL", and leading some astray such as yourself.

The evidence is there and anyone, anyone [in the body of Messiah] {Christ} that has a "love" of the "truth" can see thru this veil of hypocracy!

Those leaders are now deceased and some carry on thier false torch! "another gospel"


www.despatch.cth.com.au/Books_D/hyperdispensationism.pdf


much more links to expose this false "another Gospel" if you want them

You have proved nothing but, you just don't get it.

Berry pick up your snakes and drink your poison thats after your clovenized tongue speak's so others can understand in there own language.

But please sell all that you have and give me my share before you do this.

Are We Hyper-Dispensationalists?
By David M. Havard

Keywords: hyperdispensationalism, ultradispensationalism, dispensationalism, H. A. Ironside, Charles Baker, Pastor C. R. Stam, E. W. Bullinger, J. C. O'Hair, revelation of the mystery, body of Christ, Paul's gospel, gospel of the grace of God, Apostle Paul, rightly dividing the word of truth

Many years ago, H. A. Ironside1 published a booklet entitled Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth in which he threw Charles Baker and C. R. Stam into the same bucket as E. W. Bullinger. Ever since then, we have been labeled as having the same extreme views as Bullinger. Men who have never looked into what we really teach continue to spread the slander started by Ironside back in the 1930's. Besides, it's much easier to label us as "hyper" and dismiss us than it is to address us based on the Scriptures.

This was recently done again in the July/August 1999 issue of Uplook magazine (published by the Plymouth Brethren). In this their Dispensationalism Issues issue, they presented an excellent overview of dispensationalism. As a matter of fact, we would agree with the majority of what was written. But then, one writer had to add this statement:

"One final word. Like all good things, the study of dispensations can be abused. There are some Christians who carry dispensationalism to such an extreme that they accept only Paul's Prison Epistles as applicable for the church today. As a result, they do not accept baptism or the Lord's Supper, since these are not found in the Prison Epistles. They also teach that Peter's gospel message was not the same as Paul's….These people are sometimes called ultra-dispensationalists or Bullingerites (after a teacher named E. W. Bullinger). Their extreme view of dispensationalism should be rejected."2

This article was then followed by the following excerpt from Ironside's book:3

"What is Bullingerism or Ultra-dispensationalism? This system was first advocated some years ago by Dr. E. W. Bullinger (1837-1913), who was educated at King's College, London, and was a clergyman in the Church of England. These views have been widely spread through the notes of the Companion Bible which he edited. Dr. Bullinger's positions are glaringly opposed to what is generally accepted as orthodox teaching. This movement has been carried forth in our day by ardent proponents such as Cornelius Stam, J. C. O'Hair and Charles Baker. [emphasis mine]

"There are a number of outstanding tenets of Ultra-dispensationalism. First, it is insisted that the four Gospels are entirely Jewish and have no real message for the Church. Secondly, it is maintained that in the book of Acts we do not have the Church, the Body of Christ, but that the word ekklesia (church), as it is used in that book refers to a different Church altogether than that of Paul's Prison Epistles. Thirdly, it is contended that Paul did not receive his special revelation of the mystery of the Body until his imprisonment in Rome, and that his Prison Epistles alone reveal this truth and are, strictly speaking, the only portion of the Holy Scriptures given to the members of His Body. All of the other epistles of Paul are relegated to an earlier dispensation and were for the instruction of the so-called Jewish Church of that time. Fourthly, the Christian ordinances, having been given before Paul, are supposed to have no real connection with the present economy, and therefore are relegated to the past, and may again have a place in the future Great Tribulation.

"Beside these points, there are many other unscriptural things which are advocated by Bullingerism. Many boldly advocate the sleep of the soul between death and resurrection, the annihilation of the wicked, the universal salvation of all men and demons, the denial of the eternal Sonship of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the denial of the personality of the Holy Spirit. All these evil doctrines find congenial soil in Bullingerism or Ultra-dispensationalism."

"But wait!" You're thinking, "I don't believe those things!" Well, neither do I, but these are their tactics. As far as most Acts 2 folks are concerned, we agree with Bullinger's far out views regarding soul sleep, annihilation of the wicked, universalism, and that the Body of Christ did not start until Acts 28. You either believe in their interpretation of dispensationalism or you are an extremist like Bullinger. They do not recognize any middle ground. This is what we are up against.

In the above quote, Ironside lists some the "outstanding tenets" of what he calls "ultra-dispensationalism." While this is a convenient label, it does not Biblically address the issues. Let us examine what Ironside said (and everyone else seems to repeat) and see if we agree or not.

"First, it is insisted that the four Gospels are entirely Jewish and have no real message for the Church": We do not believe that the four gospels have no real message for the church—Paul says that ALL Scripture is profitable. However, we do believe (because we hold to a literal historical interpretation of the Bible) that Christ's earthly ministry was in keeping with Israel's prophetic kingdom program (Matt. 10:5-6; 15:24). We find application in the gospels to be sure, but to say that the basic message of the gospels is directed to the Body of Christ is not being consistent or literal. As Scofield says in his reference Bible, "The Epistles of the Apostle Paul have a very distinctive character....Through Paul alone we know that the church is not an organization, but an organism, the Body of Christ; instinct with His life, and heavenly in calling, promise, and destiny. Through him alone we know the nature, purpose, and form of organization of local churches, and the right conduct of such gatherings. Through him alone do we know that `we shall not all sleep,' that `the dead in Christ shall rise first,' and that living saints shall be `changed' and caught up to meet the Lord in the air at His return. But to Paul was also committed the unfolding of the doctrines of grace…Paul, converted by the personal ministry of the Lord in glory, is distinctively the witness to a glorified Christ, Head over all things to the church which is His Body, as the Eleven were to Christ in the flesh." And if, according to traditional dispensationalism, the Body of Christ started at Pentecost, how can it be found retroactively in the gospels? The message that Peter preached at Pentecost was an offer of the millennial kingdom to Israel (Acts 2:22) conditional upon their repentance and recognition of Jesus as their Messiah—something that we now know will not happen until after the tribulation.

"Secondly, it is maintained that in the book of Acts we do not have the Church, the Body of Christ, but that the word ekklesia (church), as it is used in that book, refers to a different Church altogether than that of Paul's Prison Epistles": You'd think they would at least understand this! Regarding the assembly in the book of Acts, we have both "churches" mentioned, depending on the context. If you see the Body of Christ in the gospels, you are closer to a covenant position than a dispensational one. If the Body is found in the gospels, then to be consistent, it also has to be found in the Old Testament prophetic program as well. It was Bullinger (with whom we do not agree) who said that the Body of Christ did not start until the close of the book of Acts and that only Paul's prison epistles are for us today.

"Thirdly, it is contended that Paul did not receive his special revelation of the mystery of the Body until his imprisonment in Rome, and that his Prison Epistles alone reveal this truth and are, strictly speaking, the only portion of the Holy Scriptures given to the members of His Body": We do not agree with Bullinger on this point either. We do say that Paul received a special revelation (Gal. 1:11-12), but we do not agree that only his prison epistles are applicable to us today. Paul began to receive his special revelation of the mystery upon his conversion in Acts 9.

"Fourthly, the Christian ordinances, having been given before Paul, are supposed to have no real connection with the present economy, and therefore are relegated to the past, and may again have a place in the future Great Tribulation": Regarding the "ordinances" of the church, there is no place in Scripture where water baptism and the Lord's supper are linked. The Lord's Supper is a memorial that we are instructed in I Corinthians 11 to keep "until He come." However, we do feel that water baptism is a Jewish ordinance and is something that was phased out during the transition period. It is also rarely pointed out that we are not unique in understanding that water baptism is not for today. Other groups throughout church history, such as the Quakers, have also come to this same conclusion.

"Many boldly advocate the sleep of the soul between death and resurrection, the annihilation of the wicked, the universal salvation of all men and demons, the denial of the eternal Sonship of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the denial of the personality of the Holy Spirit. All these evil doctrines find congenial soil in Bullingerism or Ultra-dispensationalism": This is the worst sort of guilt by association, but I'm sure you see the implication. If you believe in a mid-Acts position, then, according to them, you also believe in these extreme and unscriptural viewpoints as well. By associating us with these cult-like beliefs we can be discredited without ever having to answer our Biblical arguments.

This is what we are up against. These are the same battles, misunderstandings, and deliberate misrepresentations that Pastor Stam has had to fight against for over 60 years—and we must continue to do so today if the gospel of the grace of God is going to continue to go forward.

Yet rather than discourage us, these things should motivate us. We know what we have found. We know how confused we used to be. We can honestly say that this is a more consistent and literal approach to Scripture. We no longer have to explain away what the Bible clearly says in verses such as Acts 2:38. We know that by reading the Body of Christ back into the gospels, we rob them of their distinctive kingdom character. By not understanding the difference we either have to make the clear statements in the gospels (such as a distinction between Jew and Gentile and water baptism) conform to Paul's epistles (where he says there is no difference between Jew and Greek, and that he is the apostle to the Gentiles) by explaining them away or we have to read the gospels into Paul's epistles and make them conform to the message in the gospels (which is what John MacArthur has done with "Lordship Salvation").

We are not the wild-eyed radicals that the theological media tries to portray us as. We are in agreement with the overwhelming majority of traditional dispensationalism. Our two primary points of disagreement are that we see the Body of Christ starting with the conversion and call of the Apostle Paul and that water baptism is not a requirement for this dispensation.

Let us stand firm in proclaiming the unique message revealed to and through the Apostle Paul. It is like telling others about our faith in Christ. We know what it has done for us. We know that it has cleared away our confusion. Let us graciously and boldly share with others what this message has done for us.

Endnotes

1. If you can find someone who has a copy of The Controversy (it's now out of print), you can read more about Ironside's history as related to the Grace Movement.

2. William MacDonald, "Distinguishing things that differ," Up-look, July/August 1999, pp. 11-12.

3. Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth, H. A. Ironside, Loizeaux Brothers, New York, 1938.

--------------------
That is all.....

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barrykind
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Bill read the entire bible sir!

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
Bill read the entire bible sir!

(b)erry STUDY the entire Bible.


Now go away your starting to bother me.

--------------------
That is all.....

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barrykind
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bill states:

quote:
errory STUDY the entire Bible.


Now go away your starting to bother me.


hopefully the word of YHWH Yahweh will convict you sir!


[hug]

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
bill states:

quote:
errory STUDY the entire Bible.


Now go away your starting to bother me.


hopefully the word of YHWH Yahweh will convict you sir!


[hug]

First off speak English.

The Lord judges me not you. The Spirit convicts me not you.

and most importantly, don't miss this....

The Father Loves me to provide all this for me not you.

--------------------
That is all.....

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barrykind
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bill states:

quote:
First off speak English.

The Lord judges me not you. The Spirit convicts me not you.

and most importantly, don't miss this....

The Father Loves me to provide all this for me not you.


Sir do you not understand the english letterw YHWH..ond day you surely will!

and the english word and letters Yahushua?


You start you ugly arrogance, and rudeness when your losing an argument...

Causing me to be on the borderline and probably have crossed over into strife..


Im done with you if David allows your teaching of "another gospel", its not my place to keep on showing the truth.......


Enough of you sad evil teachings, and arrogant name calling, of which Carol has had to edit many times, and your name calling of Christ and calling HIM a liar..im sorry but im done with you sir..The Lord has given me direction to leave you to your folly!

Bible says:

quote:
Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.


Proverbs 26:5
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit



--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
bill states:

quote:
First off speak English.

The Lord judges me not you. The Spirit convicts me not you.

and most importantly, don't miss this....

The Father Loves me to provide all this for me not you.


Sir do you not understand the english letterw YHWH..ond day you surely will!

and the english word and letters Yahushua?


You start you ugly arrogance, and rudeness when your losing an argument...

Causing me to be on the borderline and probably have crossed over into strife..


Im done with you if David allows your teaching of "another gospel", its not my place to keep on showing the truth.......


Enough of you sad evil teachings, and arrogant name calling, of which Carol has had to edit many times, and your name calling of Christ and calling HIM a liar..im sorry but im done with you sir..The Lord has given me direction to leave you to your folly!

Bible says:

quote:
Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.


Proverbs 26:5
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit


And billy threw a big old rock. Hugh!


And the guilty dog did bark!

--------------------
That is all.....

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barrykind
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Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.


Proverbs 26:5
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.


Proverbs 26:5
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit

Do you have a double vision sight?

--------------------
That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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I think he does.

Paul used the expression "another gospel" in Galatians 1 when he was describing the legalists who perverted the Gospel of Grace.

barry is trying to take Paul's words and apply them to the exact opposite of the way Paul intended them! barry is saying that the Gospel of Grace is another gospel.

Either barry has never studied Galatians, or else he feels qualified to twist scripture to mean the opposite of its original meaning.

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becauseHElives
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Turning the Grace of God into Lasciviousness

n his letter to the church, Jude gives a dire warning. He writes, "To them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called...it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares...ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ" (Jude 1-4).

Jude is forewarning us that false shepherds will steal into God's house with one goal in mind: to turn the Lord's grace into lasciviousness. He's saying, "Satan is sending a certain false doctrine to infiltrate the church. And it's going to come through preachers, teachers and evangelists. They'll take God's grace and subtly twist it, manipulating it, until finally it produces lasciviousness in God's people."

To fully grasp the seriousness of Jude's warning, we need to understand the meaning of lasciviousness. This term embodies every conceivable strain of sin. In literal terms, lasciviousness means "lacking in moral discipline, having no regard for accepted moral standards." The word comes from the Latin "lascivia," meaning loose, runaway passion and lust. It signifies licentiousness, lawlessness, the casting off of all restraints. It also represents all that's filthy, degrading, lewd and obscene.

Jesus called lasciviousness a sin of the heart, "that which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness" (Mark 7:20-22).

Like Jude, the apostle Paul also addressed the lasciviousness he saw taking place in the church. He wrote to the Corinthians in blunt terms, "I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would...and that I shall bewail [mourn for] many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed" (2 Corinthians 12:20-21).

Now, in this same passage, Paul calls the Corinthians his "dearly beloved." Indeed, these people were Paul's children in the Lord. And they were incredibly blessed by God. They had been mentored by Paul himself, Timothy, Titus and other godly ministers. And Paul reminded them, "We do all things...for your edifying" (12:19).

As we read Paul's two letters to this church, we see the incredibly powerful teaching he brought to them. He wrote on the resurrection, the coming of the Lord, the judgment seat of Christ, death to sin, righteousness by faith, heaven, hell. Paul faithfully warned these people, wooed them, pleaded with them. Without question, no other body of believers had been so lovingly pastored, so presented with convicting truth, and so edified by the gospel of grace.

Moreover, the Corinthians were blessed beyond Paul's teaching. They had experienced powerful movements and workings of the Holy Spirit in their midst. And they'd been endowed with many spiritual gifts, including healings, prophecies, tongues, interpretations, divine revelations. This church was a vibrant, prophetic, on-fire body.

Yet, incredibly, a number of these same blessed believers continued to live in immorality. Paul accused "many" of them of being lascivious (12:21). He wrote, "This is the third time I am coming to you...I told you before...now I write to them which heretofore have sinned...that, if I come again, I will not spare...Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction" (13:1-2, 10).

Paul didn't mince words. He was saying, "Twice now I've warned you of the sin in your congregation. You've all sat under godly, convicting preaching. You've all partaken of God's gift of grace. And yet some of you have twisted that grace by deliberately continuing to live in uncleanness. I remind you, my gift is edification, not destruction. I'm called to build you up in the precious faith. But when I come back to you a third time, I may have no choice but to deal with you harshly. I won't spare anyone who's still indulging in sin."

I ask you: how could these abundantly blessed people choose to remain in such a sordid condition? We expect the world to be lascivious, freely indulging their lusts, but not God's people. Evidently, however, this sin had run rampant in God's house.
We May Ask This Question About the Church Today.

Every Sunday, professing Christians gather in God's house to worship, hear his Word and enjoy fellowship. Yet many of these same holy-appearing people lead lust-filled lives. They're fornicating, carrying on affairs, feeding their addictions to pornography. Tell me, how could any enlightened believer continue to do such things?

First, consider the prophecy in Revelation 12. We're told an enraged devil will invade the earth in the last days to seduce God's people: "The devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child?And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood" (Revelation 12:12-15).

This passage describes Satan's attack on the church in these last days. The devil is going to spew forth a flood of filth so vast and powerful, it will carry away even many of God's elect. Paul told the Corinthians this was already happening among them, as many had already been swept up in Satan's flood of lasciviousness.

Right now, I believe lasciviousness has become an epidemic in the church. From coast to coast, millions of people are immersing themselves in erotic filth. Even in the hills of Kentucky, on farms in Iowa and ranches in Idaho, people of all ages are feeding their souls on smut. It's being piped right into their homes via satellite. This flood of filth has become so pervasive, even elderly grandmas and grandpas are indulging in it.

I prophesied this phenomenon in my 1974 book, The Vision. This was before VCRs were invented, at a time when even the word sex couldn't be used on TV. I wrote:

How will Satan attempt to vex and deceive God's chosen people? He's going to do it by seducing mankind and creating a moral landslide. He's going to open the floodgates of hell and seek to baptize the world in erotic filth, smut and sensuality. This moral landslide will surpass anything the human mind can conjure. Already, demonic spirits of lust are sweeping over the nations, bringing nudity, perversion and a flood of filth.

There's a dirt bath coming to vex the minds and souls of the most devout Christians alive today. The Bible said Lot vexed his soul night and day by the things he saw and heard in Sodom. Christians are soon going to be exposed to such violent filth and sensuality that it will take a firm grip on God to survive. Those who are on the fence are going to fall flat on their faces. Those who don't enter into the ark of God's safety are going to be swept away by this flood of filth.

Major TV networks will be caught up in this landslide. I predict the network programs will soon attempt bare-breasted scenes. Toplessness will be the new fad to those who are trying to liberalize the media. It will be done "tastefully" at first. But when the artistic community joins in a chorus of praise for this great breakthrough in freedom, floodgates are going to open, and then anything will go. Even clergymen will applaud nudity on TV, saying it's a healthy development. Surprisingly, those who speak out against it will not be ministers and those known as devout Christians, but rather those in politics and in Hollywood itself.

Be warned, in the not-too-distant future the most wicked, X-rated, porno movies will be shown on select cable after midnight. Cable TV is already a target of pushers of pornography. In a few major cities in the United States, Canada and Europe, triple-X-rated movies are available in some hotels. They're coming from Sweden, Denmark and the United States. These vile films will project nudity, sexual intercourse, homosexuality, animal perversion and sadism.

People will pay for these erotic movies to be piped directly into their living rooms...It will be played through an electronic attachment, piped right into their homes. And our homes will be called pleasure palaces.

I wrote this 27 years ago. Not only has every bit of it come to pass, it is now sweeping out of control, even in the church.

Yet, most Christians who read this message probably think it doesn't apply to them. They wonder, "Why would you write this kind of message to servants who never indulge in any kind of lasciviousness? We need to be built up and edified."

Let me explain why I'm writing this warning to godly, devout believers:
This Is Not a Warning to Those Who Sneak Into Porn Theaters Or Rent Filthy Videos.

I'm not writing this for Christians who indulge in filth, whether through TV, videos or the Internet. Rather, my aim is to make you examine the kind of gospel you believe. This involves your concept of grace. I want you to test whether you'll allow into your heart any leaven of false doctrine about the meaning of God's grace. Ultimately, this can be a matter of life or death.

You see, the devil is probably not bent on hooking you with filth. He may know he can never tempt you with gross sin. However, if he can pervert your concept of grace - if he can get you to see grace as an excuse for permissiveness - then he can start you down a path to bondage. Soon you'll be doing things you never could have conceived. And, worse, he will have sold you the lie that it's okay for you to indulge your lust.

For this reason, Jude doesn't beat around the bush. He tells us right away why so many in God's house are being carried away by the devil's flood of lasciviousness: "There are certain men crept in un-awares...ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ" (Jude 4). In this one verse, Jude lays bare Satan's entire plan to deceive God's elect. The devil is going to subtly bring ministers of all kinds into the church to pervert the gospel of grace.

Yet, if you have a truly biblical understanding of grace, the enemy can't deceive you. He'll never be able to seduce you into lasciviousness. So, what is true biblical grace?
True Biblical Grace Is Holy-Ghost Empowerment To Live a Godly Life and Deny Ungodliness.

"The grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:11-13).

This passage reveals two traits that biblical grace always produces in the life of a believer: 1. an anticipation and longing for the coming of the Lord, and 2. a godly fear and holy reverence for the Lord. These two fruits of grace's work are inseparable. We simply can't possess one without the other.

The writer of Hebrews urges us, "Let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear" (Hebrews 12:28). This verse ties grace directly to reverence. In short, reverence is a concept of God that includes awe, respect and soberness.

The apostle Peter also ties grace to sober reverence: "Gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:13). Peter isn't encouraging us to wear long faces or to walk around joylessly. On the contrary, he's speaking of a reverence that produces true gladness in the heart. He's saying, in essence, "If you have a revelation of Jesus' grace - his love, holiness and beauty - it will produce in you awe and reverence."

Now, when Jude says ungodly men will infiltrate the church, his word for ungodly means "men without reverence." In other words, these teachers will bring lightness and levity into God's house. They'll attempt to distort and pervert all reverence for the things of the Lord.

Jeremiah prophesied of such ungodly men, "Behold, I am against them...saith the Lord...(that) cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness" (Jeremiah 23:32). The word for lightness in this verse means froth or frivolity. Jeremiah is saying, "These false teachers laugh at things that are to be revered, respected and viewed with awe. They ridicule the soberness that comes with true worship of the Lord."

What is the devil's aim by bringing in a spirit of lightness? It's to make you believe the Lord isn't serious about sin. Satan wants you to think there is no wrath at all in God, that his grace covers all righteous judgment. So, at times you'll hear the enemy whisper, "Don't fret about your lust. There is abundant mercy and forgiveness in the Lord."

Paul says all these ungodly ministers "hold the truth in unrighteousness" (Romans 1:18). In other words, they've known the truth and tasted it. They've been edified and reproved by it. "For God hath shewed it to them" (1:19). Yet, in spite of being blessed by God's truth, they turned from it. They refused to forsake their lascivious ways, and instead gave themselves over to their lusts. In turn, God gave them over fully to the deceit of their sin.

When Jude speaks of "turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" (Jude 4), the word turn here means modified, something added. It comes from a root word meaning to prostrate truth, that is, to lay truth on the ground and make it something passive. In short, God's grace was once something upright and effective in these ungodly men's lives. But because they wouldn't forsake their sin, they laid the truth flat and trampled on it, removing all its meaning and power. As Isaiah cried, "Truth is fallen in the street...Yea, truth faileth" (Isaiah 59:14-15).

I see God's truth being handled this way throughout the church today. I recently watched a videotape from a seeker-friendly church that held a "David Letterman Night." The pastor listed the top ten reasons why kids get bored in church. Some of the things he mentioned were so foolish, so far removed from the true character of Christ, I can't repeat them. Yet everyone in the congregation was laughing and applauding. That pastor was turning the gospel of grace into frivolity. By subtly twisting its meaning, he was laying it on the ground and removing its power.

You may wonder: where do such ungodly ministers come from? How are they able to creep into the church to pervert God's grace? Did the devil pick them out of some vile porn theater and dress them up as angels of light? Or, are they atheists who have disguised themselves as preachers and bluffed their way into the pulpit?

No. Paul says of such men, "God showed them the truth" (see Romans 1:19). At one time, these men knew the full meaning of grace. Yet somehow, they became addicted to an unforsaken lust. At that point, they began to hold the truth in unrighteousness. They had to invent a false grace to excuse their lasciviousness. So, now they're preaching a false Christ, through a perverted concept of grace.
Most Readers of This Message Aren't Like the Men Jude Describes.

Jude calls such ungodly ministers "filthy dreamers [who] defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities" (Jude 8). By contrast, I believe most people who are reading this message are God-fearing, obedient servants. They aren't dabbling in filth. They've forsaken lasciviousness, and are walking in grace that leads to holiness.

Still, I believe some readers may struggle with what I call "lapses into lasciviousness." These Christians haven't given themselves over to their lust, but they do occasionally have an encounter with something unclean. We see an example of this in a report released by a hotel specializing in conventions. The report stated that the greatest number of in-room, pay-per-view pornographic movies were requested during a religious convention. In fact, more porn movies were piped into rooms during that church convention than during all other types of conventions held there.

I realize that many ministers and Christian workers may be addicted to some kind of lust. Surveys among pastors have shown this to be overwhelmingly true. However, I believe many such believers are plagued more by occasional lapses into lasciviousness. After each indulgence, these struggling servants feel the weight of their guilt, and they repent. Moreover, they long to be delivered from their occasional lapses.

I want to address all such Christians right now: Satan realizes you're going to cry out to God every time you sin. And he knows you're always going to receive God's forgiveness. So, as long as you still have a measure of the fear of God in your heart, he can't bind you to any lust or sin. How, then, does the enemy eventually get hold of God's people? How does he recruit those who have known true grace, arm them with a false gospel, and send them into churches to try to deceive the elect?

The only way the devil can bind you to a sin is by selling you a lie. In short, he has to convince you his lie is really the truth. And he does this most often by persuading Christians they can still hold to God's truth while indulging a sin. You may object, "How could Satan ever persuade any sincere Christian that it's okay to sin? I could never believe God overlooks or excuses my sin."

Satan sells his lie by persuading Christians that grace is simply a never-ending river of forgiveness. He whispers to us, "You can keep going back to your sin, as long as you keep coming back to the altar. Didn't Jesus say we're to forgive others at least 490 times? Surely your loving Savior will forgive you many more times than that. As long as you have a repentant heart and keep mourning over your sin, you'll be okay. You can indulge your lust a thousand times, and he'll freely forgive you every time."

This sounds so close to the truth. Indeed, there is no end to God's forgiveness for those who come to him with a truly repentant heart. So, this statement truly is 95 percent gospel. However, the other 5 percent is pure poison. And it will eventually destroy your soul. Satan's "5 percent lie" about grace is the demonic leaven that ruins the whole loaf.
Do You Think, "This Could Never Happen to Me"?

Perhaps you're thinking, "I go to a church where a godly pastor preaches a solid, biblical word. I don't know any ministers who twist the gospel of grace into permissiveness. The sermons I hear are about New Covenant grace, and God's mercy toward those who struggle. I've learned that, although I have no power in my flesh to overcome sin, God's Spirit will empower me to obey his Word."

You've grasped an incredibly freeing, life-changing truth. Yet, if Satan sees you lapse occasionally into lasciviousness, he'll realize you have a liking for your sin. He'll know you don't really want to be free. Moreover, through your continued sin, you've given him entry to your mind. And that's exactly how he'll implant a lie in you. He'll inject in you a single, deadly distortion of truth that sounds something like this:

"Isn't this truth wonderfully freeing? In yourself, you have no ability to resist sin. So God promises to send the Holy Ghost to do for you what you can't do. All you have to do is keep mourning, and your lapses won't matter. The Holy Spirit knows when to step in and empower you. You certainly can't be judged for a sin you can't control."

Do you see the lie inserted in this gospel of grace? It's the lie that Christians have no personal responsibility for their sin. And it leads to blaming God for your sin. You'll say, "Why didn't the Holy Ghost come when I was tempted? I was waiting for him to empower me, but he never showed up. That's why I gave in to lust. It's not my fault."

The truth is, if you don't want to be free of your lust, you'll take God's gift of grace and run with it straight into sin. But Paul spells out the deception of this thinking: "Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid" (Romans 6:1-2).

Thank God, Jude has given us three safeguards against the seductions of Satan's lies concerning grace. Jude writes, "But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life" (Jude 20-21). Note three things in this verse:

1. We're to build up our faith. How? By the diligent study of God's Word. However, faith comes not just by reading the Bible, but by hearing - or, doing - what we read. We're to read God's Word, apply it to our hearts, and accept its reproof. That will produce in us a spiritual soberness. Then, no matter what kind of message we hear preached, we won't be carried away by the lies or lightness of any man.
2. We're to pray in the Holy Ghost. This means we don't just pray in church, but by shutting ourselves in with the Lord in private. We're to ask God's Spirit to shine his light on our hearts, and receive his correction, so we can obtain grace for any lack.
3. We're to be anxious for nothing, and instead look for our Lord's coming. If we're studying God's Word and praying in the Spirit, then we can't help but look for Jesus' sudden appearing. We'll know this world is not our home, and we'll expect our Lord to come for us at any moment.

If you're applying these three safeguards, then you'll understand true grace. And you won't be seduced into lasciviousness by any perverted message of grace. God has assured us in his covenant: "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you...And I will...cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them" (Ezekiel 36:26-27). God swears to put his Spirit in us, who will empower us to obey everything our Lord demands of us.

Yet, God has attached a condition to this promise. He says, "I the Lord have spoken it, and I will do it. Thus saith the Lord God; I will yet for this be inquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them" (36:36-37).

Here is where our personal responsibility comes in. We're not to live passively, always waiting for the Holy Ghost to show up whenever we're tempted. Our job is to continually inquire of the Lord, that is, to be prayerful. He's telling us, "If you truly want power to overcome sin, then you need to seek me for it. If you come after me with all your heart, in true diligence, I'll fulfill every promise of my covenant in your life."

Each of us has within us the ability to pray, to read God's Word, and to look for Jesus' soon return. If we do these things, Jude declares, we'll reap the benefits of this prayer: "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy" (Jude 24).

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
I think he does.

Paul used the expression "another gospel" in Galatians 1 when he was describing the legalists who perverted the Gospel of Grace.

barry is trying to take Paul's words and apply them to the exact opposite of the way Paul intended them! barry is saying that the Gospel of Grace is another gospel.

Either barry has never studied Galatians, or else he feels qualified to twist scripture to mean the opposite of its original meaning.

Some peoples babes.

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That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Turning the Grace of God into Lasciviousness


Sounds like the Family International

http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Loving_Jesus

Sickening

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barrykind
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Caorl states:


quote:
Carol Swenson

Moderator
Member # 6929

posted October 30, 2010 03:51 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Turning the Grace of God into Lasciviousness


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Sounds like the Family International

http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Loving_Jesus

Sickening

Yes the example you have shown Sister Carol and link is a Prime example of the false teaching that Grace is a license to sin.....its a 5% Truth mixed with 95% lies!


Its the 95% truth and the 5% lie that will get most unaware christians...

Borrowed from David Wilkerson:
quote:

You see, the devil is probably not bent on hooking you with filth. He may know he can never tempt you with gross sin. However, if he can pervert your concept of grace - if he can get you to see grace as an excuse for permissiveness - then he can start you down a path to bondage. Soon you'll be doing things you never could have conceived. And, worse, he will have sold you the lie that it's okay for you to indulge your lust.

For this reason, Jude doesn't beat around the bush. He tells us right away why so many in God's house are being carried away by the devil's flood of lasciviousness: "There are certain men crept in un-awares...ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ" (Jude 4). In this one verse, Jude lays bare Satan's entire plan to deceive God's elect. The devil is going to subtly bring ministers of all kinds into the church to pervert the gospel of grace.

Yet, if you have a truly biblical understanding of grace, the enemy can't deceive you. He'll never be able to seduce you into lasciviousness. So, what is true biblical grace?
True Biblical Grace Is Holy-Ghost Empowerment To Live a Godly Life and Deny Ungodliness.

"The grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:11-13).

[/QUOTE]

To be honest, Stam has written some real good articles....

To me the way i understand scriptures, Stam has embraced along with J.C. O'Hair a twisted view of scriptures, to my understanding.

Subtle but true, the teachings about "the Mystery" that only Paul knew goes against the very writings of Paul....


Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,


1 Corinthians 2:7
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:


1 Corinthians 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


Ephesians 1:9
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:


Ephesians 3:3
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,


Ephesians 3:4
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)


Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:


Ephesians 5:32
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.


Ephesians 6:19
And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,


Colossians 1:26
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:


13.Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:


14.Colossians 2:2
That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;


15.Colossians 4:3
Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:


Read full context of what the mystery is and it was not only Paul that knen what it was..Read accompanying scripture to get the context.

Ephesians 3:5
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit



Now Ephesians 3 is a great key to this understanding!


Ephesians 3
1For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

12In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

13Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

14For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

16That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

17That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

18May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

20Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

21Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.





The very heart of this "mystery" is

4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:




The grace Paul recived was : Paul was persecuting the "chuch" and made waste of it!

1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.


Galatians 1:13
For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:


This writing of Paul shows that the "chuch" was BEFORE..Paul being told the "mystery"

It shows the grace and mercy shown Paul; thinking he was serving YHWH and i reality he [Paul] was fighting against God, although done in ignorance!


Peter was shown also a sighn, the unclean animals in avision..and told to eat!

YHWH was showing Peter..not to call common [unclean] what YHWH said is clean!...THus talking about the Gentiles, and sent Peter to Cornelius's house.....


Now that being said, i think the Berean Bible Society went off base, but not with just this teaching in itself...that the Church did not start..until Paul; but the twisted view of grace that it holds....

A 95%/5% false veiw of grace, subtly changing the true grace of the Messiah Yahushua [Jesus] into lawlessness....

Grafting in of the Gentiles!....which by nature are contrary to the vine; but can also be cut off and the original be grafted back in..
More later...work calls

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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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Berry worthy walk?

"Now that being said, i think the Berean Bible Society went off base, but not with just this teaching in itself...that the Church did not start..until Paul; but the twisted view of grace that it holds...."


Carol Swenson

Moderator
Member # 6929

posted October 30, 2010 04:11 AM
barrykind

quote:
This is what this false gospel that the Berean Bible Society teaches.....fleshly grace;

Not the true grace of Yahuhsua and Paul, and the apostles..


Shame on you, barrykind. Shame on you. This is not what they teach at all. You are bearing false witness.(AGAIN)

From the Berean Bible Society...


Christian Walk

Not only does understanding the gospel of the grace of God provide a proper motive for us to share our faith, it also gives us the proper motive and means to live the Christian life effectively.

Proper Method

By what method or means are we enabled to live a proper Christian life? The fact that a proper walk is desired by God is evidenced by the many times in Paul’s epistles that we are exhorted to “walk worthy” or to practically live up to what God has called us to be in Christ. In Ephesians 4:1 Paul beseeches us that we would “walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called” (Eph 4:1). (See also Rom.6:4; Eph. 2:10; 5:8; Col. 1:10; 2:6; 4:5; I Thes. 2:12; 4:1).

But while we may readily admit the need to live in such a way that honors Christ, we also ask “How?” What is the means to living what some call a “victorious Christian life”?

Some would have us believe that the way to walk worthy is to “speak the word of faith” and to command Satan to leave us alone. Any lapse or failure to achieve victory is blamed on us. “You didn’t have enough faith” we are told. Unfortunately, those who try to live out this misapplied teaching find themselves frustrated because it simply does not work in this present evil age. In this age, we are not exhorted to bind or rebuke Satan, but to put on the whole armor of God so that we can stand against him:

“Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand” (Eph 6:11-13).

THIS is the secret to a dynamic Christian life! Not in “speaking the word of faith” or other such New Age and in some cases, occultic practices! There is no magic formula, no quick and easy shortcut to Christian maturity and victory. Maturity comes only as we read and submit to God’s Word in our life. Victory comes only by the daily sacrifice and submission of ourselves to God (Rom. 12:1-2).

Proper Motivation

The gospel of the grace of God also gives us the proper motivation for living righteously before God. Our primary motivation to live as we should is the overwhelming love of God that is poured out upon us (Rom. 5:5; II Cor. 5:14; Gal. 5:6; Eph. 2:4; 3:19). It is this love that is supposed to motivate us to in turn love God and others (Eph. 5:2).

The reason that we are separated from the world and unto God is not because of some legalistic mindset, but because of our love for others. Paul says that he is careful to not offend the unsaved (Jews or Gentiles) or the saved (the church of God) and that he doesn’t seek his own profit, “but the profit of many, that they may be saved” (I Cor. 10:32-33).

This is why we refrain from certain activities. Not because we think we are more pious or holy than others, but to make sure that we do not place a stumbling block in front of them (i.e., trip them up) spiritually.

“We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. For even Christ pleased not Himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached Thee fell on Me” (Rom. 15:1-3).

And:

“But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak… And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ” (I Cor. 8:9,11,12).

We see that the love and grace of God toward us and our love for others for the sake of the gospel should constrain us to live righteously and holy in this present evil age. Our motivation should not be what pleases us, but that which leads to the edification and salvation of others.

Another seldom mentioned aspect of the dispensation of Grace that should motivate us to walk as we should is the Judgment Seat of Christ. As stewards we will be required to give an account before God as to how we have administered the gospel that He has entrusted to us (Rom. 14:12; I Cor. 4:2; II Cor. 5:10).

We do not have to ever worry about eternal damnation or judgment for sin because that was paid for by the blood of Christ and we are secure in Him (Rom. 8:31-34; Col. 2:10).

However, there will be an accounting. Just as God’s love compels us to serve Him (as that of a son who wants to please his earthly father), fear of His displeasure likewise motivates us as well. Just as an earthly son does not want to experience the displeasure of his father, so we should also be concerned about our Father’s displeasure at the Bema Seat of Christ.

But we must remember that displeasure does not equal damnation or loss of sonship. My son may do something that displeases me, but that will never change the fact that he is my son and heir. While there is nothing that can change the established fact that we are sons of God and heirs with Christ, this does not mean that our Father cannot be displeased with us, either here or at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

This is why Paul, speaking of the children of Israel, writes in I Corinthians 10:5, “But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.” And he goes on to say, “Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted” (I Cor. 10:6). Paul is saying that just as God was not well pleased with many (not a few) of the Israelites, He is often not pleased with the Church, the Body of Christ today—in a practical sense. The Israelites were still His chosen people. We are still members of the Body of Christ. But being in the Body of Christ and knowing certain truths does not mean that we are living in such a way that is well-pleasing to God.

Some believers have unfortunately (and to their detriment) misinterpreted II Timothy 2:15. They mistakenly think that “study” simply means to academically study God’s Word and know the facts about God’s program for today as revealed through the Apostle Paul.

To “study” means to be diligent. Diligent unto what? Diligent unto the end of being “approved unto God.” Approved unto God refers to the Judgment Seat of Christ (II Cor. 5:10). What will be judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ? Our knowledge of the Scriptures? Our knowledge of “right division”? No! What will be judged at the Bema Seat of Christ are “the things done in his [our] body, according to that he [we] hath done, whether it be good or bad.” Notice that it is our works that will be judged—our walk, not our talk.

The last part of II Timothy 2:15 “rightly dividing the Word of truth” is the means to the end, not the end itself. “Rightly dividing the Word of truth” or knowing God’s program for today is what gives us the means or way to “be diligent” and live our life in such a way that we will be “approved unto God” at the Bema Seat of Christ.

Berean Bible Society
http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/999291000.html

--------------------
That is all.....

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barrykind
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Bill states:

quote:
WildB

Advanced Member
Member # 2917

posted October 31, 2010 06:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Berry worthy walk?

"Now that being said, i think the Berean Bible Society went off base, but not with just this teaching in itself...that the Church did not start..until Paul; but the twisted view of grace that it holds...."


Carol Swenson

Moderator
Member # 6929

posted October 30, 2010 04:11 AM
barrykind

quote:
This is what this false gospel that the Berean Bible Society teaches.....fleshly grace;

Not the true grace of Yahuhsua and Paul, and the apostles..

Shame on you, barrykind. Shame on you. This is not what they teach at all. You are bearing false witness.(AGAIN)

From the Berean Bible Society...


Christian Walk

Not only does understanding the gospel of the grace of God provide a proper motive for us to share our faith, it also gives us the proper motive and means to live the Christian life effectively.

Proper Method

By what method or means are we enabled to live a proper Christian life? The fact that a proper walk is desired by God is evidenced by the many times in Paul’s epistles that we are exhorted to “walk worthy” or to practically live up to what God has called us to be in Christ. In Ephesians 4:1 Paul beseeches us that we would “walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called” (Eph 4:1). (See also Rom.6:4; Eph. 2:10; 5:8; Col. 1:10; 2:6; 4:5; I Thes. 2:12; 4:1).

But while we may readily admit the need to live in such a way that honors Christ, we also ask “How?” What is the means to living what some call a “victorious Christian life”?

Some would have us believe that the way to walk worthy is to “speak the word of faith” and to command Satan to leave us alone. Any lapse or failure to achieve victory is blamed on us. “You didn’t have enough faith” we are told. Unfortunately, those who try to live out this misapplied teaching find themselves frustrated because it simply does not work in this present evil age. In this age, we are not exhorted to bind or rebuke Satan, but to put on the whole armor of God so that we can stand against him:

“Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand” (Eph 6:11-13).

THIS is the secret to a dynamic Christian life! Not in “speaking the word of faith” or other such New Age and in some cases, occultic practices! There is no magic formula, no quick and easy shortcut to Christian maturity and victory. Maturity comes only as we read and submit to God’s Word in our life. Victory comes only by the daily sacrifice and submission of ourselves to God (Rom. 12:1-2).

Proper Motivation

The gospel of the grace of God also gives us the proper motivation for living righteously before God. Our primary motivation to live as we should is the overwhelming love of God that is poured out upon us (Rom. 5:5; II Cor. 5:14; Gal. 5:6; Eph. 2:4; 3:19). It is this love that is supposed to motivate us to in turn love God and others (Eph. 5:2).

The reason that we are separated from the world and unto God is not because of some legalistic mindset, but because of our love for others. Paul says that he is careful to not offend the unsaved (Jews or Gentiles) or the saved (the church of God) and that he doesn’t seek his own profit, “but the profit of many, that they may be saved” (I Cor. 10:32-33).

This is why we refrain from certain activities. Not because we think we are more pious or holy than others, but to make sure that we do not place a stumbling block in front of them (i.e., trip them up) spiritually.

“We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. For even Christ pleased not Himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached Thee fell on Me” (Rom. 15:1-3).

And:

“But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak… And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ” (I Cor. 8:9,11,12).

We see that the love and grace of God toward us and our love for others for the sake of the gospel should constrain us to live righteously and holy in this present evil age. Our motivation should not be what pleases us, but that which leads to the edification and salvation of others.

Another seldom mentioned aspect of the dispensation of Grace that should motivate us to walk as we should is the Judgment Seat of Christ. As stewards we will be required to give an account before God as to how we have administered the gospel that He has entrusted to us (Rom. 14:12; I Cor. 4:2; II Cor. 5:10).

We do not have to ever worry about eternal damnation or judgment for sin because that was paid for by the blood of Christ and we are secure in Him (Rom. 8:31-34; Col. 2:10).

However, there will be an accounting. Just as God’s love compels us to serve Him (as that of a son who wants to please his earthly father), fear of His displeasure likewise motivates us as well. Just as an earthly son does not want to experience the displeasure of his father, so we should also be concerned about our Father’s displeasure at the Bema Seat of Christ.

But we must remember that displeasure does not equal damnation or loss of sonship. My son may do something that displeases me, but that will never change the fact that he is my son and heir. While there is nothing that can change the established fact that we are sons of God and heirs with Christ, this does not mean that our Father cannot be displeased with us, either here or at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

This is why Paul, speaking of the children of Israel, writes in I Corinthians 10:5, “But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.” And he goes on to say, “Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted” (I Cor. 10:6). Paul is saying that just as God was not well pleased with many (not a few) of the Israelites, He is often not pleased with the Church, the Body of Christ today—in a practical sense. The Israelites were still His chosen people. We are still members of the Body of Christ. But being in the Body of Christ and knowing certain truths does not mean that we are living in such a way that is well-pleasing to God.

Some believers have unfortunately (and to their detriment) misinterpreted II Timothy 2:15. They mistakenly think that “study” simply means to academically study God’s Word and know the facts about God’s program for today as revealed through the Apostle Paul.

To “study” means to be diligent. Diligent unto what? Diligent unto the end of being “approved unto God.” Approved unto God refers to the Judgment Seat of Christ (II Cor. 5:10). What will be judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ? Our knowledge of the Scriptures? Our knowledge of “right division”? No! What will be judged at the Bema Seat of Christ are “the things done in his [our] body, according to that he [we] hath done, whether it be good or bad.” Notice that it is our works that will be judged—our walk, not our talk.

The last part of II Timothy 2:15 “rightly dividing the Word of truth” is the means to the end, not the end itself. “Rightly dividing the Word of truth” or knowing God’s program for today is what gives us the means or way to “be diligent” and live our life in such a way that we will be “approved unto God” at the Bema Seat of Christ.

Berean Bible Society
http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/999291000.html

--------------------
That is all.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 3801 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004 | IP: Logged |

Actually Carol stated: Exactly:


[QUOTE] Carol Swenson

Moderator
Member # 6929

posted October 30, 2010 02:11 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
barrykind


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what this false gospel that the Berean Bible Society teaches.....fleshly grace;

Not the true grace of Yahuhsua and Paul, and the apostles..


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shame on you, barrykind. Shame on you. This is not what they teach at all. You are bearing false witness.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4955 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007 | IP: Logged |
You make it look like the whole post is Carol's in its entirety....Time stamp dont look right either unless carol posted it twice..could not find another shame on me any where..


[hug]

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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Carol Swenson
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I posted the article yesterday

http://thechristianbbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=007467;p=2

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barrykind
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Yesw mam thats what i thought but it ws the short version and not the other part,,
Thanx....i love kitty cats... [wiggle7]

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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barrykind
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What part of my previous posts Sister Carol do i not make my self clear or, do you think im off base?

Does Not the Berean Bible Society state:

1) water baptism is not for the church today?

2) The Church actually started with Paul and his learning of the "Mystery"?

3) That the 4 Gospel [albeit] are true and relevant; there not relevant for the "body of Christ"..the "church" of today; in which Paul started with the gentiles?

3)Do not those of the BBS, state that the books[edit sp] of James, Jude, Most all of acts is not for the Church of today?

Did i misquote anything so far sister?

i will get into more about the rest after i hear about your answer...

Now im not being contentious dear Sister Carol, i want to go point by point and research all the points out one by one;

i dont want to "false accuse " anyone..lets study closely..if you will.

Edit this [add] I know that many Hyper-Dispensationalists do not think that the "communion" "the Lord's supper" is for today; im not sure what the BBS teaches on that doctrine:..[end edit]

[thumbsup2] [hug]

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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barrykind
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im not talking to you bill, iwas asking Carol

[Smile]

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
What part of my previous posts Sister Carol do i not make my self clear or, do you think im off base?

Does Not the Berean Bible Society state:

1) water baptism is not for the church today?

2) The Church actually started with Paul and his learning of the "Mystery"?

3) That the 4 Gospel [albeit] are true and relevant; there not relevant for the "body of Christ"..the "church" of today; in which Paul started with the gentiles?

3)Do not those of the BBS, state that the bood of James, Jude, Most all of acts is not for the Church of today?

Did i misquote anything so far sister?

i will get into more about the rest after i hear about your answer...

Now im not being contentious dear Sister Carol, i want to go point by point and research all the points out one by one;

i dont want to "false accuse " anyone..lets study closely..if you will.

Edit this [add] I know that many Hyper-Dispensationalists do not think that the "communion" "the Lord's supper" is for today; im not sure what the BBS teaches on that doctrine:..[end edit]

[thumbsup2] [hug]

From page one. Please stop your drama.

WildB

Advanced Member
Member # 2917

posted October 17, 2010 07:56 PM
What does the Berean Bible Society believe?
An excellent question! Here is a copy of our doctrinal statement:


WE BELIEVE:
1) The verbal inspiration and plenary authority of the BIBLE in its original writings.

2) The eternal trinity of the GODHEAD.

3) The eternal deity, virgin birth, vicarious death, and spotless humanity of the LORD JESUS CHRIST.

4) MANKIND by nature is sinful and under the condemnation of God.

5) Personal SALVATION is by God’s grace, through faith in the crucified, risen, and glorified Christ.

6) The ETERNAL SECURITY of all the saved.

7) The personality and deity of the HOLY SPIRIT.

8) The essential unity of all believers of the present dispensation as members of the one true Church, the BODY OF CHRIST.

9) The GIFTS enumerated in Ephesians 4:7-16, have been given for the building up of the Body of Christ, and of these, only evangelists, pastors, and teachers are in order during the present dispensation. The sign gifts of the Acts period were temporary in character, and have ceased.

10) The privilege and duty of all the saved to WALK by faith as children of light.

11) The Communion of the LORD’S SUPPER as revealed through Paul for the members of the Body of Christ “TILL HE COME.”

12) All believers are made members of the Body of Christ by One Divine BAPTISM, by which also they are identified with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection. In the light of I Corinthians 1:17, Ephesians 4:5. and Colossians 2:12, we affirm that water baptism has no place in God’s spiritual program for the Body of Christ in this dispensation of grace.

13) The RESURRECTION of the Body.

14) The Pretribulation RAPTURE of the Church.

15) The personal, premillennial RETURN OF CHRIST to reign on earth.

16) The ETERNAL PUNISHMENT of the unsaved dead.

17) The MYSTERY “Hid in God” was the divine purpose to make of Jew and Gentile a whole new thing, that is, the Church, which is Christ’s Body. The revelation of this Mystery was committed to Paul, and it is in his writings alone that we find the doctrine, position, walk and destiny of the Church.


3. What is a "berean" anyway?
Thanks for asking. We get asked that a lot. Being called a Berean comes from Acts 17:10-11. In verse 11 it says that those from Berea (hence, the Bereans) were nobler than the people in Thessalonica because they "received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

So, when we say that someone is a "Berean" we mean that they do two things: (1) They have an open mind and willingly receive the Word of God when it is taught to them and (2) But then, they check out what they were taught by comparing it with the Scriptures.

Both aspects are important. Some people are so closed minded that they will not even listen to anything new or that might threaten what they already know. Others are so gullible that they accept whatever is told them without ever checking it against what the Bible says. Both extremes are to be avoided.

A Berean is one who has a balanced viewpoint. We listen to what someone has to say because we are eager to learn the word of God more perfectly. We realize that we have not learned it all. But then, we take what we have heard and compare it with the Bible. Then, if both match, we have learned something and increased our knowledge of God's Word, rightly divided.

--------------------
That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
Yesw mam thats what i thought but it ws the short version and not the other part,,
Thanx....i love kitty cats... [wiggle7]

I posted the whole article on the "Another Gospel" topic. There is no "other part".

You said they teach fleshly grace. But they don't - they teach living righteously before God.

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
What part of my previous posts Sister Carol do i not make my self clear or, do you think im off base?

Does Not the Berean Bible Society state:

1) water baptism is not for the church today?

2) The Church actually started with Paul and his learning of the "Mystery"?

3) That the 4 Gospel [albeit] are true and relevant; there not relevant for the "body of Christ"..the "church" of today; in which Paul started with the gentiles?

3)Do not those of the BBS, state that the books[edit sp] of James, Jude, Most all of acts is not for the Church of today?

Did i misquote anything so far sister?

i will get into more about the rest after i hear about your answer...

Now im not being contentious dear Sister Carol, i want to go point by point and research all the points out one by one;

i dont want to "false accuse " anyone..lets study closely..if you will.

Edit this [add] I know that many Hyper-Dispensationalists do not think that the "communion" "the Lord's supper" is for today; im not sure what the BBS teaches on that doctrine:..[end edit]

[thumbsup2] [hug]

barrykind,

WildB has posted their statement of faith several times, so you SHOULD know what they believe about the Lord's Supper.

Concerning baptism, here is a link to a Wikipedia article. It's long. Even if you just scan through it briefly you'll see that there are so many different beliefs about baptism it can make your head spin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism

It would be prideful to think our belief is the only right belief. The Berean Bible Society are not the only people who think that baptism is not necessary. However, if you think it's important to imitate the 1st century, they baptized people naked.

quote:
Until the Middle Ages, most baptisms were performed with the candidates completely naked—as is evidenced by most of the early portrayals of baptism (some of which are shown in this article), and the early Church Fathers and other Christian writers. Typical of these is Cyril of Jerusalem who wrote "On the Mysteries of Baptism" in the 4th Century (c. 350 A.D.):


About Paul's teaching, we know that Christ will not set up His earthly kingdom until He returns. The Lord and His 12 Apostles taught about that kingdom. This is a whole complicated topic in itself, but briefly, Paul taught the body of Christ how to live until then. Paul was taught by Christ, and Paul’s writing was inspired by the same Holy Spirit as all the rest of the Bible. Paul states that all scripture is profitable, and the moral teachings of our Lord are repeated in Paul's letters. I cherish every word my Lord spoke, but I don't fool myself into thinking that His earthly kingdom exists now.

To state it simply, the Church Age is not the Kingdom Age to come, but God's moral laws are for all time. They are how we are to live, not how we are saved, for salvation is a free gift. The moral laws we are to live by are taught in the New Testament.

If you want to look into it, here is a link you can begin with

http://www.matthewmcgee.org/2gospels.html#Intro

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barrykind
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What part of my previous posts Sister Carol do i not make my self clear or, do you think im off base?

Does Not the Berean Bible Society state:

1) water baptism is not for the church today?

2) The Church actually started with Paul and his learning of the "Mystery"?

3) That the 4 Gospel [albeit] are true and relevant; there not relevant for the "body of Christ"..the "church" of today; in which Paul started with the gentiles?

3)Do not those of the BBS, state that the books[edit sp] of James, Jude, Most all of acts is not for the Church of today?

Did i misquote anything so far sister?

i will get into more about the rest after i hear about your answer...

Now im not being contentious dear Sister Carol, i want to go point by point and research all the points out one by one;

i dont want to "false accuse " anyone..lets study closely..if you will.

Edit this [add] I know that many Hyper-Dispensationalists do not think that the "communion" "the Lord's supper" is for today; im not sure what the BBS teaches on that doctrine:..[end edit]

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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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becauseHElives
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PUTTING RIGHT THE ERRORS OF MID-ACTS DISPENSATIONALISM (THE Berean Bible Society )

I would like to see mid-Acts dispensationalism lose the ultra-dispensationalism tag and become the mainstream understanding of Christianity. Several false dogmas have become widespread among mid-Acts dispensationalists and an overhaul of mid-Acts understanding is required to halt its drift toward becoming a bizarre cult, worthy only of being marginalized and shunned. Here is a list of corrections that will help to put the mid-Acts ship back on course:


1. CHURCH DEFINED BY THE PRESENCE OF THE SPIRIT OF PROMISE

The church, the body of Christ is solely defined by the presence of the Holy Spirit of promise in believers (Romans 8:9, Ephesians 1:13). It is the same Spirit of promise that was promised to Israel (Luke 24:49). Therefore Paul was not the first member of the church, the body of Christ (Romans 16:7). The Lord asked Paul “why persecutest thou ME?” (Acts 9:4, 22:7, 26:14) therefore Peter’s little flock were his body. Paul’s partner Barnabas was saved before he was (Acts 4:36) and was later called a Christian (Acts 11:26). Peter later saw himself and his people as Christians (1 Peter 4:16).



But Paul was the first person saved in God’s new and unprophesied dispensation of his longsuffering and grace to ignorant and unbelieving sinners (1 Timothy 1:13-16, 2 Peter 3:15).

Paul was a “me first” pattern of the great longsuffering and grace of God toward us ignorant sinners saved since, providing we repent of our ignorance and believe (Ephesians 4:18, 2 Timothy 2:25).

Paul was the apostle given the dispensation of grace to Gentile-ward (Ephesians 3:1-2).

Paul magnified his office of apostle of the Gentiles (Romans 11:13).



[The main error that mid-Acts dispensationists make is to try and start the body of Christ with the salvation of Paul. This leads to great confusion and puts Peter and Barnabas in a different body, or church, to Paul. A dispensational change can occur within an existing body of God’s people. The new dispensation of law was introduced through Moses to an existing body of God’s people - Israel. Many of Israel did not go along with it and were cut off. The new grace dispensation was introduced through Paul to an existing body of God’s people - the church of God which began of the day of Pentecost and which was initially a Jewish sect. Many existing members were blinded to God’s new dispensation revealed through Paul. They could not let go of the former law dispensation and were broken off (Romans 11:5-7, Romans 11:17-20, Galatians 2:16-21).]




2. THE MILLENNIAL KINGDOM HAS NEVER BEEN AT HAND YET

Israel’s millennial kingdom was never preached as being imminent or at hand during the Lord’s earthly ministry. Even the Son did not know that day and hour (Mark 13:32). It will not be at hand until the Lord returns in a cloud with power and great glory (Luke 21:27). Although the coming millennial kingdom was talked about by Jesus, the kingdom that John the Baptist and Jesus preached as being at hand was the kingdom that is within us (Luke 17:21) - the Holy Spirit kingdom (Romans 14:17). John would have been preaching a falsehood if he was preaching that the millennial kingdom was at hand – because it wasn’t. John preached only the truth – that Jesus was the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world (John 1:29) and that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Ghost (John 1:33). The spiritual kingdom of God within us is an earnest (foretaste and pledge) of our eternal inheritance (Ephesians 1:13-14) in the heavenly, eternal kingdom of God (2 Timothy 4:18). (The millennial kingdom will be earthly and temporal.)



God was not surprised by Israel’s rejection of his Holy Spirit because the present dispensation was kept secret since before the world began (Romans 16:25). Therefore the great tribulation, followed by Israel’s millennial kingdom, were also never at hand in the months and years immediately after the day of Pentecost - although it is understandable that the believers thought they were (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 2:16-20, Acts 3:19). This present dispensation had been kept secret – hidden from prophecy.



[The second main error that mid-Acts dispensationalists make is to try and convince us that John the Baptist and the fleshly Jesus Christ were preaching that Israel’s millennial kingdom was at hand. That is why the word “kingdom” has become pretty much unusable when speaking with mid-Acts people. They teach that God had planned to install Israel’s millennial kingdom sometime after the day of Pentecost, but changed his mind in reaction to Israel’s persecution of his Spirit-filled flock. Therefore they are teaching that God does not have foreknowledge (1 Peter 1:2) and had not planned the introduction of his mystery program, through Paul, since before the world began (Romans 16:25).]




3. THE CHURCH ARE PARTAKERS OF ISRAEL’S SPIRITUAL THINGS

Gentile believers today are partakers of their spiritual things; i.e. Israel’s spiritual things (Romans 15:27). We are partakers of New Covenant spiritual blessings initially promised to Israel and our head is the mediator of the New Covenant (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 12:24). The dispensation of grace is the dispensation of Israel’s spiritual things to anyone who believes Paul’s gospel. The promises were made to Abraham and his seed – which is Christ (Galatians 3:16). Cleansed Gentiles are Christ’s flesh and bone (Ephesians 5:30) and therefore inheritors of the promises made to Abraham and his seed.



Both Jews and Gentiles were unwittingly involved (Acts 4:27-28) in the Lord’s offering “one sacrifice for sins forever (Hebrews 10:12)”. So the Gentiles were also cleansed by the Lord’s sacrifice - although this wasn’t revealed until the Lord directed Peter to go to the Gentile Cornelius (Acts 10:15). Gentiles who are washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God (1 Corinthians 6:11) are partakers of God’s covenants of promise with Israel (Ephesians 2:12-13). We both (Jew and Gentile) have access by one Spirit unto the Father (Ephesians 2:18) – the Spirit of promise that was promised to Israel.



[In their vigour to keep the church from being stained by anything Jewish, many mid-Acts dispensationalists overlook the fact that we have inherited spiritual things which all stem from the Lord’s “blood of sprinkling” of the New Covenant – a covenant of promise that was made with the house of Israel (Hebrews 8:8-10).



Prior to Calvary, God could only have an earthly, fleshly church (Israel), of a single chosen bloodline and rigorously disciplined by an array of laws and ordinances. After Calvary and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, it became possible for God to have a spiritual, heavenly church for the first time. God’s spiritual, heavenly church is the only game in town today.]




4. THE SAINTS SHALL JUDGE ANGELS AND THE WORLD

The saints shall judge angels and the world (1 Corinthians 6:2-3). Therefore the saints of this present age will judge the world at the Second Coming of the Lord. It is the only possible time we could. The Jewish saints shall be saved, even as the Gentiles (Acts 15:11), and they will judge the twelve tribes during the millennial kingdom (Matthew 19:28). The Gentile saints may judge the other tribes of the world. God has promised to restore his judges as at the first (Isaiah 1:26).



All of his saints have the honour of executing vengeance and punishments and binding kings and nobles with chains (Psalms 149). Surely this will be the role of the saints at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints (1 Thessalonians 3:13). Although the Lord and all his saints will be clothed with houses from heaven (2 Corinthians 5:2), they will have that ability that the Lord and his angels have always had – to appear as flesh and bone humans (Genesis 18:2; Judges 6:22, 13:16; Zechariah 1:10-11; John 20:26-27; Hebrews 13:2).



There is a close interrelationship between events on earth and events in heaven (Matthew 18:18) so judging angels and the world are likely to be closely interrelated also. Satan’s angels are the current princes of this world (John 12:31, 14:30, 16:11; Romans 8:38; Ephesians 3:10, 6:12; Colossians 1:16, 2:15; Titus 3:1) so judging them is to judge the world also.



[I was taught that we are in a parenthesis of mystery, with prophecy ending at the opening bracket and resuming at the closing bracket. After being raptured to some heavenly destination (planets in outer space according to some teachers) we will play no further role on earth in the prophesied great tribulation and the millennial kingdom which follows. That is why the current batch of mid-Acts teachers make heroic efforts to prove that Paul was not speaking to us grace age saints in 1 Corinthians 6:2 but was speaking to us in 1 Corinthians 6:3. After all, angels are in heaven and that’s where we are headed.



Yes, Satan’s angels are presently in heaven yet they still manage to rule the kingdoms of the earth (Luke 4:5-7). Judging angels and the world are closely interrelated and are also closely connected with God’s prophetic program. So we must revise the dogma that we are totally disassociated from future prophesied events.]

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
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Some meat to chew on.

http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/ohair/GRACE%20WORKS%20IN%20ADOBE/BIBLE%20STUDY%20FOR%20BEREANS,%20AUGUST%20AND%20SEPTEMBER,%201936.pdf

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That is all.....

Posts: 6842 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator



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